So some of you may know I’m not very bullish on the overall state of the US/Global economy right now, and believe we’re headed towards some turmoil over the coming years. Jury is still out yet what will happen with crypto in a situation where most financial assets are declining; Will it rise, as the “new economy”? will it decline, as people losing their savings liquidate positions to pay for every day stuff? Maybe some will rise and some will fall? What are the “ingredients” that you think a crypto is going to need to weather the storm? What do you think Divi should do to set itself apart from the rest, so that crypto investors, or even regular investors or regular people flock to it as a “safe haven”(the role gold plays in inflationary crises, and good ole USD in deflationary crises), while everything else crashes and burns? is there anything in particular that you think divi can actively do?
I think today lot of people feel they have 0 power and 0 impact on how the world is running. We live in ‘democracy’ in which you even feel your vote is useless.
This forum is the perfect example of what I expect from Divi. Say my ideas and my opinions and know the team is listening and taking notes on what we think. Even more to feel they care about our opinion and not only listening with one hear. We must keep that like this.
The truth is experts have been saying that the big crash is soon since around 2000, 2008 did not end in the big usd fiat crash that is needed to restart the world of fiat fake money. They manipulated the economy so it only became a minor correction. There have been printed so much money worldwide sense 80’ers I think it was. That we need a real crash to restart without a debt based currency.
But truth is noone knows when it happens, USA, CHINA, RUSSIA, EU and the whole world is printing money every year. And they will do whatever they can do delay the crash. They already have done that for 10 years, maybe they can do it for 10 years more. Noone knows. We only know the bubble is getting bigger every year. But remember they can control this bubble in many ways. It is not like the free market and crypto bubles.
So I would not play Russian roulette on Divi going to mars in 5 years on that strategy sadly.
If the crash is sudden, then everyone panics and sell because their fiat account is 0 usd worth and they cant buy food. So they have to sell gold and crypto to buy food. They will also sell gold to buy food. in 2008 gold price fell 30% in 2008 as proof. And that one came sudden correction.
If the crash of fiat is a slow one there will be no panic, and both rich and the normal middle class will slowly but surely and the whole economy move over to crypto and gold. I think the whole fiat system world wide will die with the US dollar. Also most currencies in the world is linked to the Dollar as “backup currency” in case their own currency crashes. From when the dollar was gold backed. The whole world will get hit really hard! Maybe not all fiat dies at the same time. Maybe they do. Noone knows. It is just paper with no value behind in reality.
A slow fiat death
A fast fiat death and you can go look at Venezuela, Africa, and the rest. Savings go to 0 in months. People fight for food, starvation, riots, :S
Remember, gold cant be used to buy anything in most countries in the world. A gold bar wont buy you a bread, you need it converted into another currency of some sort and then buy a bread. Gold is the rich man’s store of value, not normal man’s store of value. That is the bank and hopefully in future crypto.
There are 1700+ cryptos. To make Divi a prefered choice you need to be trusted firstly. I see 2 ways. 1# Become a top 15 crypto in the world.
2# Become the prefered crypto/store of value in a country. Like Africa, Venezuela, like in my “be the dominating crypto in a financial unstable country”
Then when the total fiat crash comes in the country they can only turn to the preferred crypto of the country or another non USA fiat currency. Like the EU, Ruble, Yen, and so on.
What Divi can do is inform & help a financial unstable country’s government and people to convert it into a Divi based one. But most governments dont want a currency they can’t control. That is the problem. But you can go directly to the people and avoid the government.
Divi could also if the crash already has already happened help rebuild the economy around Divi as currency of the country. I hope it is possible, but never heard about a country that dont want full control over the currency of the state. Only example I know is countries where fiat crashed and they just adopted the dollar instead. Then USa control their nations currency and not them self.
I cant edit t he post. I get 403 error. So you have to live with the spelling errors and minor correction should just have been worded “correction”.
. 403 error again
Yeah, Democracy is a lie. In 2018.
The world is controlled behind the scenes by: The Banks, the Medical Industry, the Biggest Corporations ( Amazon, Google, Apple and so on ), And the most wealthy in the world. And many of them you dont find on the official “Billionaire list” - it is not even a worldwide list.
But the banks and medicinal industry is the worst.
Yeah, this is how the world should be and the future will be.
A world where the people take back the power from governments and banks.
We, right now, are living prof of it.
History is in the making infront of our eyes.
lol respectfully I’m honestly not sure what you’re talking about. I don’t listen to any “experts”…in fact I despise most so called experts. The vast majority of them actually don’t see any crashes coming, they completely missed the 2000-2002 crash and especially the 2007-2009 crash. I still remember when me and others were gearing up for it, hearing all the pundits and clowns(Jim Cramer I’m looking at you) as late as mid 2008 declare “this market feels great!”(yes, those were his EXACT words). So, most of them usually don’t see it coming and they’re not seeing it now either(if you’re a leftist and watch CNN, then they were all over the great Obama economy; if you’re a conservative and watch FOX now, they keep touting about the Trump economy; both are dead wrong).
I do agree with you a crash is needed. It’s a necessary evil…I’ve had so many people ask me what, you actually WANT a crash? what about all the people who will lose their jobs? etc etc. Guys, the manipulation in the market and holding it up for so long is one of the main reasons we’re just stagnating. It’s supposed to move in two steps forward, one step back. If you aren’t willing to take that step back, you won’t be able to take any steps forward, either. No one knows when it will happen exactly, you’re right; nor is it what I’m calling for(a major crash where fiat goes away). I’m simply calling for something similar to 2008. Perhaps a little worse.
The correction in gold was not sudden, nor was the correction in the stock market. It was brewing for a while and was due to deflationary forces; These take hold of anything BUT the USD. In times of deflation USD is needed more than any other time. You shared some good thoughts on what Divi can do to take advantage and make lemonade out of the situation, thanks.
Yeah, why I only listen to those who predicted the crashes. They are smarter than anyone else. They understand how the world economy really works.
Gold always trade slowly up and down yes. Also gold is for the rich so they had lots of fiat in the bank. Fiat did not go to 0 this time But a drop in gold price under the 2008 crash is a surprise to most. Most theory says it should go up. The rich most likely bought gold up to the 2008 crash and sold some to buy stocks at the bottom and real estate. That is how the rich get richer.
I call it sudden because the 95% did not see it coming. Because us the 5% knew it does not make it less sudden for the 95%
You are going to get the wall street crash from 1929 and maybe worse when the real bottom out crash comes my friend. Crypto is the future, crypto is real value compared to fiat. that is why the crypto market only rises from year to year bubble crashes or not. Fiat dies flat out when that currency crashes. It only stops a 0 $. Like the petro, African dollar, The German Mark, The Chinese tea fiat currency hundreds of years ago. And also the Roman empire experts believe disappeared due to inflation from money printing to pay all the warfare in the end. It started as gold or silver coins, and the Roman government kept lowering the gold/silver content until it was worthless. Pure copper likely.
well, it’s also easy to shout “crash” for 10 years and end up being right. It’s also easy to look for the wrong type of crash(Peter Schieff I’m looking at you). So while alot of them are indeed smarter than many pundits, they’re not always right either.
You want to know how the rich get richer? Easy as 1-2-3.
This is how the FED creates more wealth transfer and more wealth disparity in this country. This is why I cannot understand how people cannot see that supporting the people who support these actions is the complete opposite of what they want to accomplish by narrowing the gap beteen rich and poor. When you lower interest rates to zero, savers can’t save anything. When you engage in QE, speculation runs amoc. This means, that at best the savers will get nothing for their money, and at worst they will end up joining in on the speculation right near the top and lose once the market crashes. The less savvy investors always do that, while the more savvy(and usually already rich) ones already made their money and are ready to dump on the next unsuspecting victim.
All the while, the professional speculators/traders will make money during the bubble as well as during the crash(via shorting), all the while, big institutions like banks will make even more money during the bubble, and get bailed out during the crash. All the while, large company shareholders(again, already rich) will make more money during the bubble, and sell with perfect timing to the “used-to-be savers” turned fools. I don’t understand how some can’t see this happening right before their eyes. Again, FED policy, backed by virtually every president, including 44 and 45, is creating an even bigger gap between rich and poor. Yet some stand by and let that happen while talking about equality.
And that’s not just me saying it, the FED admits it themselves: https://archive.mishtalk.com/2016/09/03/fed-vice-chairman-admits-fed-sponsors-wealth-inequality/
Wikipedia “Wall Street Crash 1929”
Effect on Europe:
"The stock market crash of October 1929 led directly to the Great Depression in Europe. When stocks plummeted on the New York Stock Exchange, the world noticed immediately. Although financial leaders in the United Kingdom, as in the United States, vastly underestimated the extent of the crisis that would ensue, it soon became clear that the world’s economies were more interconnected than ever. The effects of the disruption to the global system of financing, trade, and production and the subsequent meltdown of the American economy were soon felt throughout Europe.
During 1930 and 1931, in particular, unemployed workers went on strike, demonstrated in public, and otherwise took direct action to call public attention to their plight. Protests often focused on the so-called Means Test, which the government had instituted in 1931 as a way to limit the amount of unemployment payments made to individuals and families. For working people, the Means Test seemed an intrusive and insensitive way to deal with the chronic and relentless deprivation caused by the economic crisis. The strikes were met forcefully, with police breaking up protests, arresting demonstrators, and charging them with crimes related to the violation of public order"
That was the effect of the Crash of the USA stock market in 1929, that led to The Great Depression in Europe.
Now we are 2018, and when the dollar crashes to 0 it will be much worser than when the stock market crashed and recovered in 1929. The fiat dollar wont recover. It will be our worst nightmare becoming a reality. USA/The west most. Thousands or millions will die due to starvation. If if we are not prepared and already have crypto as an alternative payment option in USA/The West before that happens.
So the lives of thousands or millions depend on the speed of mass adoption of crypto.
At worst all fiat currencies die in the west. Remember most countries in EU use the EURO, and many countries in Europe are bankrupt already but alive due to the banks making big cash on bailouts. But that is another subject.
It is all true my friend.
I also did not understand it for years.
Until I realized and read about the defensive mechanism in the stone-age part of the brain that blocks anything controversial compared to the world they know and beliefs of the 95%. It is also called to be a “closed minded” person vs you and me who are “open minded” from birth. We are also intellectuals who actually understand these things. And we read. Normal people dont understand or read haha.
Close minded, never read’s anything that is not mainstream and/or useless, low intelligence, short-sighted people, They are what we call sheep, easy to control, easy to manipulate.
Why humans always have had leaders, and need smart and intelligent leaders. But sadly the whole system is corrupt/full of lies from the core and out. The sheep always pick trash with a few assassinated exceptions to the rule. ( John F. Kenndy ) ( Martin Luther King ) ( Abraham Lincoln )
I like following these discussions. They always open up new perspectives.
You contribute a lot to the forum. However, you have tendency to present your views as “the truth” and not as a possibility or just your view. Also terms as my friend are used in a belittling way which makes me cringe and take my focus off what you are trying to communicate.
I can see from many of the answers that other people in the forum also get a little annoyed with you. I hope you notice it yourself.
Please continue contributing and please take this as constructive criticism. I just think you will get a lot more constructive responses if you add a little bit of humility to your forum writings.
All green lights.
Good to hear you are learning something from the discussions
I’am actually trying really hard to be humble here.
Dont think it is possible to be more humble and nice than i’am already.
It is true I put many things as facts, and i’am getting better at not doing it as much.
But a lot of it I believe to be facts.
If everybody else agrees or not I dont really care about.
I’am not a 95%'er. A 95% cares what other say, think, and is afraid to stand out.
I know the truth and if others dont it is not my problem.
I have been living a lie for so many years until it all suddenly became crystal clear.
Even my doctor say’s i’am Lightening Intelligent.
So I’am not surprised at all that only a few agrees. Because they can not see what I see. ( no surprise when under 5% is this intellectual )
When you are this gifted intellectually as me you are at a totally different level compared to normal people.
And it is hard not to become a little arrogant when you sit behind a pc reading what the 95% writes…it is like they write without thinking most of the time and i’am pulling the hair out of my head in frustrations.
My mission is just to pull people a little more in the right direction. Because most will never see or understand I know already. But the team is surprisingly understanding to my ideas, suggestions and views.
Thanks for your post, but I knew it already
But you learned a lot about me on the other hand
- Btw thanks for the kind words.
I had a feeling you already knew.
Well, then just keep applying that brainpower to the success of Divi
I would say that to be humble is the best proof of smartness. Knowing you are smart, more than common people, and not feeling yourself above others.
You can be the smartest person on Earth, you can show through maths and physics that Einstein was wrong (just an example), and also be the biggest shithead in the world. If you are you’ll die alone, why do you want to be smart if it’s not to share what you know ? And also learn from others because you can learn new things everyday.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying you’re a shithead xD. I enjoy reading you and appreciate your point of view, just saying for many smart people it’s hard to act ‘smartly’ with other human being. The social thing is something difficult I mean.
In the end just saying being smart also means to be able to share your knowledges and to accept the fact you’re only a pack of cells, no matter your intelligence you’ll end in the same place.
Hitler was smart, Einstein was smart. It’s a bit extrem but you got me.
Lets try to keep this thread on topic guys.
It is a hard topic you chose Oriz
I have been expecting a crash on the stock market for the last couple of years. Last year I sold half of my stocks to prepare for what to come - the money is still on the side line which has proven to be too early. I don’t trade - years can go between I sell stocks. As always I have been surprised of how long a bull run can last - even though everything seem way too expensive (even two years ago). On the other side of the coin, it is equally surprising how fast everything can plummet.
Soo - to the topic.
If a crash comes soon - I don’t think there is much we can do. I believe a crash in the stock market will be bad for crypto - however the crashes we see in the currencies these days is good for crypto imo.
Jeppe came with an idea of a mandatory lock-up period for masternodes in another thread which I was not to happy with. Mainly because it in theory would drive up the price and as all the nodes are locked-up at the same time they would also be released at the same time, which would/could result in a huge sell off as we have seen with ICO’s.
However if you could choose to lock your node for a reward and there was a time lock on it - say 3 months - the the coins would not be released at the same time and owners wouldn’t unlock their nodes due to some FUD or temporary turmoil.
The incentive to invest 1000 divx - 100.000 divx is in the tiers of the mn. The time lock will probably not attract more investors but it would make Divi more stable during financial turmoil. We see most alt coins drop way more than btc during crashes.
Other than that - I don’t see how we can compete with btc - as a place of refuge during crisis (except from stable coins and fiat ofc).
If we have years before a stock market crash then our chances are greater. I believe we should just stick to making crypto easy - one step at a time. And keep finding ways to incentivise holding Divi - for an increase in value or other (I like the idea of gamification - an incentive beyond speculation). We are not ready to use crypto instead of the payment methods we have already - and I don’t believe a small team like Divi should/could crack that obstacle.
The space keeps evolving and we need to be agile and be ready to implement new advances. The beauty of open source.
I told you how other coins do.
I told you that I dont like that tactic.
I said I’am fan of my idea, to have a Unlock-Delay/Cancel Masternode-Delay of 1,2 or 3 months.
No fud selfoff.
And even if we invent your scenario you did not think it through.
I 100x want a FUD/selloff ( worst case that wont happen at all ) Better that for 1 month of the year than a coin that is as volatile as the market for 12 months of the year.
1 month unstable, 11 stable = win win
Not to be personal or hard at you but have to cut it out in paper because the human brain likes to misunderstand subjects that are alien for that person for any reason.
So that argumentation is not valid.
But we finished t hat discussion in the other thread and I dont want to continue a discussion where the team already have taken a desission and that have been talked through.